Comments on: The Book of Mormon condemns polygamy

By: Leah

Leah — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 22:12:52 +0000

Do you condone JS’s polygamous and polyandrous relationships then, and him being secretive about them? Lying to his wife and others about them (I posted a quote above and there are many more of him denying his other marriages)? Even destroying a printing press (an act of tyranny) in order to protect his secrets of polygamy? Do you condone these behaviors? Just curious.

By: Leah

Leah — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 02:19:16 +0000

LOL! Let me restate that…it is not a topic of any Sunday School class lesson or a talk in General Conference. Its not “Sacrament meeting material” is more accurate.

By: Joshua Steimle

Joshua Steimle — Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:51:19 +0000

“The church does NOT tell you any of this. Resources include the LDS church owned familysearch.org.”

Aren’t these two sentences a bit of a contradiction?

Anyway, my claim that half the men were married to young women was a bit tongue in cheek, the point being that it wasn’t at all abnormal. Here’s a thorough examination of the issue of the age of Joseph Smith’s wives for those who care to get an accurate picture of things.

By: Leah

Leah — Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:42:47 +0000

“As for marrying a 14-year old, it wasn’t at all uncommon in that day and age for older men to marry young girls. If you want to judge Joseph Smith for that you’ll have to also judge half the men in the United States of that time.”

Was it normal for men to marry 14 year olds during JS’s time? No. Sources include U.S. Census Bureau statistics.

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/Age.htm

Here are a list of his wives, ages, and who they were already married too. The church does NOT tell you any of this. Resources include the LDS church owned familysearch.org.

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

By: Leah

Leah — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 00:18:35 +0000

“…What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers.” (History of the Church, vol 6, p. 411)

Joseph Smith made this statement preaching from the stand to the Latter-day Saints in Nauvoo on Sunday May 26, 1844. At the time he had secretly taken at over 25 plural wives. He didn’t just lie to Emma about his wives, to lied to everyone.

By: Ian

Ian — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:31:10 +0000

Moroni Smith – “I’m sure the women were nicer to their husbands back then.” You hope so, or as they say over here – In your dreams! And what about the men back then? Were they any “nicer” then than they are now? I hardly think so. And what do honourable women think today? Do decent women today wish that they could share a “nice” husband with a number of wives? Or what about many men sharing one woman? Is this REALLY the most satisfying relationship? And while we are on the questions – ask any honest child – would they want many mothers and one father, or many fathers and one mother? I hardly think so. Would such situations truly enrich the soul and spirit in the love and purity of God?
When God looked upon the earth at the time of Noah before He revealed His plan to him, He “saw that the evil of man was great on the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the day long.” (Gen. 6:5). Jesus said “as it was in the days of Noah,…so also it will be in the days of the Son of Man” (Lk. 17:26; see also Matt. 24).
Why would you want more than one wife? Don’t answer me. I ask it so that you may examine your own heart. God knows your heart; He doesn’t read it. He KNOWS IT ALL at one and the same time. Jesus told us that “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” (Matt. 12:34)
In Hebrews 4:12 we read that “the word of God is living and powerfully working, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Notice that it says thoughts of the heart, not of the mind.
The Holy Spirit is telling us that our thoughts originate in our hearts. If our hearts are not subject to the authority and purity – holiness of Yahweh, the Living God and His eternal Word that is the Holy Bible, then we are in rebellion to Him, and we must repent while we can lest we be found naked and ashamed before Jesus at His coming (1 Thess. 3:13; 1 Jn. 2:28; Rev. 3:17). If we are found naked and ashamed spiritually at that time, it will be too late to fix our situation. We will never enter into God’s pure and glorious Heavenly Home.
Such thoughts – (even the thought of it) about having multiple wives is wishful thinking at best and pure rebellion against the Most glorious and Holy God at worst. The enemy of our souls, Satan is trying to deceive you into thinking that this is a lovely thought you have. But He wants to steal from you, to kill you, and destroy (Jn, 10:10) your soul in Hell. Jesus came to give us life but not according to our own evil desires but according to His good and faithful and holy desires.

By: Moroni Smith

Moroni Smith — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:55:16 +0000

I wish I lived during the days when you could have more than one wife. I’m sure the women were nicer to their husbands back then.

By: Ian

Ian — Sun, 15 Jan 2012 05:37:46 +0000

Joshua, when I said “God doesn’t make distinctions between His prophets; it is we who love to do that.”, it was with respect to our ideas of one being greater than another or, more important, or had better ‘gifts’ such as miracles and the like.
By making this comment it was not my intent to deny the obvious, such as differences of style, or whether working of miracles were present or not or other like things. Clearly there are differences of this latter kind, but those do not make one greater or more important than another.
Many early scholars made a distinction between a prophet’s volume of words – calling some ‘Minor’ prophets and others “Major” prophets. That kind of labeling creates a false impression and demeans unintentionally no doubt the real value of those who had one brief message. No O.T. prophet of God was so described by God Himself – they were all His prophets; they were either faithful to what God gave them or they were unfaithful – except in the Bible reference I gave.
Men have great difficulty in valuing things as God values them. Jesus said of the widow woman who gave all her living in to the Temple treasury in good faith as unto God that she gave more than those who gave ‘huge’ some of cash.
Jesus said the ‘last shall be first and the first last’, and why in His parable about the workers who started at the beginning of the day and those who started at the end, that He considered them all worthy to get the same pay.

By: Leah

Leah — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 12:19:49 +0000

Thank you Ian!

Joshua-DNA evidence is NOW important to you for proof? That’s convenient. Let me get this straight…if DNA evidence will condemn any part of Mormonism it’s not needed, but if it will help out Mormonism it IS needed. Got it.

By: Ian

Ian — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 10:23:53 +0000

Joshua, As you should know, the old testament record unashamedly talks about ‘what may be termed as ‘killings’, conducted by God’s people in His name to eradicate those who were opposed to God and His commands, and His people Israel. It also exposes cold blooded murder by certain named individuals for selfish reasons. All of these I have lumped together by using the phrase ‘taking people’s lives’ and I was being particularly careful how I phrased it.
Our Lord Jesus Christ came to give His life a ransom for many, which He did, taking our sins and shame and guilt and condemnation upon Himself, He being the Lamb of God who completely and perfectly appeased the Father’s wrath against all sins – secret and visible, of mankind and sinful nature in mankind. By so dying as He did, God’s new covenant was ratified as the Book of Hebrews (ch.9) plainly tells; and this is the same for us who make our ‘last will’; that will is not activated while the testator is living.
The new covenant – testament is different to the old. This is why Paul says to the Athenians and the foreigners living among them that God overlooked the times of ignorance (concerning those living under the old covenant period), but now strictly commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).
Jesus from the onset of His preaching commanded men to Repent! because the kingdom of God, which is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17) was at hand.
Jesus instructed His disciples to proclaim the same message of repentance, as did John the Baptist. Peter continued this message (Acts 2:38) so did Paul.
We are to put away all lying and deceit, all maliciousness, all murderers thoughts and hatred against our fellow man. In many places throughout the New Testament we read such injunctions – commands. We are to mortify all the works of the flesh by the (aid of the Holy) Spirit (Rom. 8:13), for Paul warns us that those who practice ‘adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, and THINGS LIKE THESE, of which I tell you beforehand, as I also said before, that those practicing such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21) John gives a similar list (Revelation 22:15).
If these things are not repented of my friends, then we will not enter in Heaven for there is no room for ANY amount of any sin in God’s Holy Heaven. Hell is for the rebellious. We ought not go there. Sin must be washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ (1 Jn. 1:9; Rev. 7:14). There is no reason why any man or woman, boy or girl should not enter Heaven. However, Heaven is an eternal home for God’s holy (proclaimed and made holy by God), obedient children.
Jesus is coming soon. The Bridegroom will soon appear. He will quickly gather His prepared people, His children to Himself.
The word ‘repentance’ occurs about 25 times in the N.T, and ‘repent’ occurs about 24 times. We must repent. All you dear LDS people, if you would for one year acquaint yourselves with all the Holy Bible and truly seek the God revealed therein, leaving aside your other valued literature, you would find satisfaction alone in Jesus, and you would find that all other ‘scriptures’ are burdensome. Don’t believe me? Try it. You have nothing to lose.
“Seek Jehovah while He may be found. Call on Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his ways and the man of vanity his thoughts, and let him return to Jehovah, and He will have mercy on him, for He will abundantly pardon. (Isa. 55:6)
Testimonies abound of ardent Muslims who did just that and found Jesus Christ to be all sufficient for all their spiritual needs; they no longer need the Koran to prop themselves up. Get hold of their testimonies if you can – “Kahlil” is one.